Several people inside the ministry said vice president Abdu Murray suggested enlisting a rough ex-cop to track down the accusers and uncover information the ministry could use to discredit them. White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany, during a White House briefing on May 20, 2020, calls attention to the death of evangelist Ravi Zacharias. He could not even defend himself. The truth will come out sooner or later. Nathan Zacharias says that the RZIM UK team walked off with 15 million worth of property. When sexual allegations happen we often commit Generalization fallacy. Those allegations eventually led to an outside investigation by an Atlanta law firm, which detailed extensive misconduct by Zacharias. She only spoke out because she wanted other womenwomen hurt by Zacharias, and women victimized by other famous and celebrated Christiansto know the truth. You should carefully evaluate every accusation. Amnon comes with an evil plan. Jesus says lust is adultery. The wear and tear of travel are literal and figurative. Only God can heal the hurt. The loss of a loved one is always heartbreaking, but the notion of them resting in peace gives . I share an update on the blog (link in profile). Margie Zacharias, wife of disgraced apologist Ravi Zacharias, denies that her deceased husband was guilty of spiritual and sexual abusedespite extensive evidence to the contrary. How do you respond in a scenario like this? No matter where we stand on Ravis issue, we should pray for his family. This Stephen Baughman you mentioned is a God hating atheist that has a lot to gain by defaming famous Christian teachers so I doubt his creditability as well the credibility of your post. He died on May 19, 2020 (age 74). I dont know In this day and age of Cancel Culture, where the devil rules this world, what will be more of a triumph for the secular atheistic anti God crowd of the World that hates Christianity than to defame quite possibly one of the greatest Christian Apologist preacher of our times? I agree that when Abraham lied and told Pharoah that Sarah was his sister , it was wrong before The Lord! Mrs Zacharias should not have been evicted from her home. Mr. Sharma lost around $300,000+ to Ravi. espaol, She reached out to Baughman and then eventually spoke to Christianity Today about Zachariass spas, the women who worked there, and the abuse that happened behind closed doors. Ravi Zacharias died Tuesday, May 19, 2020, from a rare form of cancer. And so a Broken hearted Brother who felt her Sadness, loss of her Virginity Violated thru Rape, did only what was right for her Shame and Family Honour! CNN Ravi Zacharias, who spent his life defending Christianity through books and lectures, has died. He deceived people. Many who looked up to Zacharias as a mentor, model, and spiritual father have been trying to grapple with the new information, their feelings of betrayal, and questions about their own responsibility. Red heart #HappyAnniversary., Zacharias joked in May 2018 on Twitter that his wedding to Reynolds was similar to the royal wedding between Prince Harry and Meghan Markle. (Ravi Zacharias International Ministries) In a private graveside service, Zacharias was buried May 21 in a casket built by . There is a calculated silence. Why would a godly man want to open a spa, then a Ayurveda spa(East Indian)? Thank you for joining us today. Many Ravis fans are asking the question, Was Ravi in a Joseph-like situation?. She believes that he was fully devoted to God, her, their children, and those who looked up to him. I am a Christian , and I would do the same if the Perpetrator walked free! When he died in May, he was praised for his faithful witness, his commitment to the truth, and his personal integrity. CRN offers alifeline to conservative people of faith. After the settlement, Zacharias denied that he had eve been unfaithful to Reynolds during their marriage. Good intentions, maybe. 1 Song. Todays question is: What is your opinion about the letter written by Margie Zacharias? Then to find out this is all a sham, it has a greater impact.. we moderate so the information wont be public right away. Mr. Sharma needs to be heard, a real victim here. He was talking about strategy for sharing the Gospel with his unseen visitors. Zacharias did accept responsibility for being a willing participant in any extended communication with a woman, not my wife. Zacharias also said that he failed to exercise wise caution and to protect [himself] from even the appearance of impropriety, reported Christianity Today in 2017. Every woman who accused Ravi and collected a big check/cheque after his death should face scrutiny. Margie Zacharias' defense of her husband flies in the face of an investigation by the law firm Miller & Martin . According to an investigative report released earlier this month, deceased celebrity evangelist Ravi Zacharias abused multiple women with "sexting, unwanted touching, spiritual abuse and rape." The evidence is overwhelming. Zacharias solicited and received photos until a few months before his death in May 2020 at age 74. Vice President Mike Pence spoke in person at a memorial service Friday morning for Christian apologist and author Ravi Zacharias, who died earlier this month at 74 from sarcoma, a rare form of . Remember how CNN reported on Donald Trump before the election. In examining the evidence we feel he is innocent and you can read the many articles we have written there starting with What makes the Ravi Zacharias issue so complicated. What an absurd discussion. Zacharias was the author of more than thirty books on Christianity, He also hosted the radio . Ravi Zacharias International Ministries (RZIM) has released a report that details the findings of an independent investigation into the organisation. Thats a bad example. Going into the process in September 2020, the ministrys official stance was that the allegations couldnt be true but that it would conduct an investigation to clear Zachariass name. A few months after the death of Ravi Zacharias, three women came forward to accuse him of long-term sexual harassment. Ravi did indeed have an established inappropriate relationship with massage parlors. Where were these accusers when me-too was an unstoppable movement a few years ago? If someone comes to assault you, you dont ask for money, you run. Amnon gets from the bed and attacks her. On Jan. 21, 2020, the couple donated $30,000 to support the Christian apologetic ministry, its outreach, training, and other programming, according to the complaint. That woman went on to send him nude pictures as well. Our master is Jesus. NO VIDEOS! My prayers go out to his family. We, as Christians, should have truthful discernment from God on our side being that we have been saved by Him since we have confessed that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that He is Lord of us and our life. I think so. The massage therapists and the women pictured in Zachariass phone albums were decades younger than him, many in their 20s. I believe that Mr. Zacharias was falsely accused. Why the Deeper Truth About George Floyd and Derek Chauvin Must Matter to You, Mennonite Church USA Releases Radical Defund the Police? He always said he had back pain. Znd she wouldnt look. She lusted after Joseph, a handsome young man. When people (such as the Carriers) have that much of a commitment to their faith, they expect and want that from others. Recently the pain has intensified and I have battled several flare-ups. In the press release announcing his death, Sarah Zacharias said that her father returned from receiving chemotherapy in Houston to be at home in Atlanta. Sign up for our newsletter: : , , : . Nathan says, the RZIM UK team waited for months before opening their mouths on the Ravi scandal. Why did they release their report just before US Presidential election? Rather than continuing Lords ministry with that money, these pricks only focused on collecting the money. I bet you have now begin to question if Jesus was actually a virgin born or perhaps the disciples stole the body as it was reported on Jewish CNN. In 2 Samuel 11, David repeatedly attempts to fool Uriah into thinking that he impregnated his wife Bathsheba. Now it is clear that, offstage, the man so long admired by Christians around the world abused numerous women and manipulated those around him to turn a blind eye. Lori Anne's husband, Brad, was a "huge fan" of Zacharias and his ministry prior to meeting him in person, according to a close friend of the Thompsons. When Abraham lied about his wife Sarah, he was deceiving his hosts. Did he feign sickness to trap these women? Ravi Zacharias, who died of a rare spinal cancer in May 2020, committed the alleged abuses to a large and yet unknown number of women over the course of more than a decade, a 12-page report by . * "Open Letter From the International Board of Directors of RZIM on the Investigation of Ravi Zacharias" From the RZIM Board: It is with shattered hearts that we issue this statement about the allegations against RZIM's Founder, Ravi Zacharias. Ezekiel asks the question, "Can these dead bones live?" Zacharias had been battling sarcoma and died at his home in Atlanta on. One woman told the investigators that after he arranged for the ministry to provide her with financial support, he required sex from her. She called it rape. . According to CT, RZIM's board has dwindled to 12 people from 21 at the time of Ravi Zacharias' death. Its can take a lifetime to heal. ], Subscribe to CT None off us are a better Man than King David! Reynolds said in a 2019 interview with the RZIM website that she and Zacharias sought to create traditions for their children that were based on the truth about religious festivals. We were trusted by our staff, our donors, and the public to mentor, oversee, and ensure the accountability of Ravi Zacharias, and in this we have failed.. Regarding Zacharias, the New York Times reported: The influential evangelist Ravi Zacharias, who died last spring, engaged in "sexting, unwanted touching, spiritual abuse, and rape," according to a report released on Thursday by the global evangelical organization he founded. If the days are not shortened even the elect shall be deceived. Lennox withdrew from all association with RZIM the day after CT reported the spa allegations, but told British apologists he would happily work with them if they were to form an independent organization. She wanted to seduce him. 9. Please visit our website www.doctorpaul.org. Yours in Christ, Ged Davies. It is so grievous to me to see the nastiness coming out amongst so called Christian. Notably, Margies position directly contradicts the findings of an independent investigation from the Miller & Martin law firm, as well as the testimony of, I wanted you all to know that I have spent the last week going through every paper and article in Ravis desk, closet and drawers, wrote Margie, who said that Ravi Zacharias International Ministries (. Investigators said they did not find evidence that anyone within RZIM or on the board knew of the misconduct. Are they all telling the truth? This year we are raising a fund to support orphan children. I'm surprised I haven't seen a post on this, but on May 19th, a great apologist, Ravi Zacharias passed away from cancer. The investigation confirmed that Zacharias lied about not being alone with a woman other than his wife or daughters. That is a clear violation of 4th Amendment. Speaking specifically about how the family celebrated Christmas, Reynolds said: At Christmas, we incorporated a custom we first saw practiced in Jordan and used it to teach the children our oneness not just as a family but as part of Gods family because He had sent his son to earth. A woman who answered the phone at RZIM said the ministry was unable to comment at this time.. Defenders Voice is all about going to where the truth is. Poor Tamar goes into the room. There are 3 possibilities here. The couple met at Zacharias's church youth group. And wait until after he dies? I will lie to everyone that I am sick and I will ask for Tamar to come and assist me. Most of the charges are against the law and can only be addressed in a Court of Law. Not only that, how is it that they even accuse him? People inside RZIM expect the core to include speakers Michael Ramsden, Abdu Murray, and Vince Vitale, led by Davis. The investigation included a review of his electronic devices and found evidence of text- and email-based relationships with women, as well as more than 200 selfie-style photographs of women. Demas is ranked as a fellow worker in the gospel alongside Luke, of all people. However, when the 'soft' cover-up failed, David took a more drastic approach: he commanded Uriah's death. Any women who has experienced infidelity in their marriage knows the hurt, and devastation. A post shared by Ravi Zacharias (@ravizacharias) on Feb 19, 2020 at 11:16am PST. While he told his staff that his real mistake in the Thompson matter was not alerting someone that he was receiving photographs of another woman, we have no indication that he ever went to RZIM management or its Board on the more than 200 occasions he received photographs of women during and after the Thompson matter, the report says. On Tuesday morning, it becomes 10. In its statement released with the report, the RZIM board acknowledged the failure and apologized to Lori Anne Thompson. So much for Randy Alcorn and John MacArthur.. In my view, a renaming of the organisation and fundamental restructuring of the organisation and board needs to be done and done very quickly, if the potential of the marvelous young team of apologists is to be retained in any collective sense., Other national boards are also in the process of disentangling themselves from the US headquarters, according to multiple sources inside the ministry. The board (whose names are not publicly available) and leadership have been planning for a reckoning since investigators interim report in December prepared RZIM to expect the worst. If their stories are true, they should not fear more investigation into their testimonies. She worried about other women who might be out there, hurting. The notes app on his phone included Thai and Mandarin translations of phrases like Id like to have a beautiful memory with you, little bit further, and your lips are especially beautiful.. I have read several of Dr. Zacharias books. The couple is endued with a son named Nathan Zacharias and 2 daughters named mother-in-law Zacharias, wife Zacharias Davis (Author & corporate executive of RZIM). Apologist Ravi Zacharias died Tuesday, two months after he announced he had been diagnosed with cancer. I did not find anything questionable. Shortly after his death, new allegations surfaced that Zacharias had pressured staff at a spa he co-owned for sexual favors. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Jesus says if you love father or mother more than Me, you are not worthy of Me. Ravi Zacharias' Death At 74. If she felt like Ravi was abusing her, why didnt she call the police? If the reports were indeed true, the wife of Ravi herself will quite possibly be angry at her late husband and just let things rest and will not be so vigorously defend his name. The scope of the investigation did not specifically extend to the ministrys finances, although it revealed that four women received money from the discretionary fund from a humanitarian effort connected to the ministry. Reynolds said that this was not used for celebrations such as Christmas and Easter but also Valentines Day and St. Patricks Day. Zacharias, Christian apologist, was the Indian born founder of Ravi Zacharias International Ministries. She sorted pain medication, pens and watches, and the bag of crosses he gave to every therapist who helped him and which have been used against him, called expensive gifts used to bribe or groomIm not even sure what that is. Dont jump to conclusions. ahmed fahour new wife; how to use single quote in dynamic sql query; 11 jackson ave, scarsdale, ny 10583; duncan meekins released; turkey club sandwich nutrition Uncovering hot babes since 1919. margie zacharias home. All of whom stand to gain monetarily in big way! But not deserving of Capital Punishment! If we are still questioning the credibility of the so called women who sold images of themselves for money, then we must begin to intorigate our own biases. Zacharias died on May 19 at 74 following a battle with cancer. RZIM changed course and hired Miller & Martin in early October, after several speakers said they found the allegations credible and demanded the ministry do a real and reputable investigation. Margie also said she found cards from therapists thanking him for the blessing he was to them, for his encouragement to them, for leading them into a deeper walk with the Lord or being instrumental in bringing them to the Lord. She said that she and her daughter, Naomi, had received frequent text messages from a therapist who had often helped Ravi with his back, expressing love, respect, and support for the Zacharias family. When Jessica isn't writing, she enjoys West Coast Swing dancing, reading, and spending time with her friends and family. Ravi wasnt who people thought he was on any score. The legendary evangelist was speaking to staff in February 2018 at his ministry's Atlanta headquarters, not long after he'd settled a lawsuit with Lori Anne Thompson, who had accused Zacharias of. The findings prompted an apology from RZIM's anonymous board and a pledge from Davis . Ravi went to Trump WhiteHouse and made himself a target of Anti-Trump Christians. I told you many times before. I think it happened in Gods perfect time, she said. After the death of Ravi Zacharias in May 2020, further allegations of sexual immorality surfaced. So much for Randy Alcorn and John MacArthur.. Let us all, like King David, run to the Lord. Please share your comment. He was involved in Christian apologetics for a period spanning more than forty years. The woman googled Ravi Zacharias sex scandal and found the blog RaviWatch, run by Steve Baughman, an atheist who had been tracking and reporting on Zachariass fishy claims since 2015. Ravi Zacharias, the 74-year-old head of a global ministry founded in 1984 and a bestselling author, died in May 2020. At the start of the new year, RZIM was bracing for a split. Nathan Zacharias posted this letter on his web site www.defendingrravi.wordpress.com. In fact, one day after Zacharias publicly stated in 2017 that he had learned a difficult and painful lesson over his communication with Lori Anne Thompson, he received more photographs from another woman, investigators found. And what a coincidence all these happened right after the man was dead so that he has no means to defend his name. Although allegations of sexual impropriety (and the inflating of his academic credentials) had surfaced before, further accusations of sexual abuse were made shortly after . Its most recent 990 form, for 2014, showed RZIM had total revenue of $25.74 million. Sexting, Spiritual Abuse, Rape: Devastating Full Report on Ravi Zacharias Released. She writes, in part, with the full letter being posted at the end of this article Viewarticle, Articles related to the Ravi Zacharias story, CRN has a list of professing Christians to mark and avoid (Rom 16:17-18). Twenty women are complaining about Donald Trump. In the entire Evangelical world, not one Christian leader said a single word of defense for Ravi, at least after condemning his sins. His ministry, preparing to downsize in the wake of a new investigation, expresses regret for misplaced trust in a leader who used his esteem to conceal his sexual misconduct. The defendants held themselves out to be Christian apologetics charged with defending Christianity. Police: Stetson Bennett hid behind brick wall prior to arrest, Long before season, Georgia Tech president found football performance worrisome, UGA star Jalen Carter present at scene of fatal crash, Kemp, Rivian double down on $5B Georgia factory despite challenges, Georgia Power customers bills could jump again soon. And those people will have them. What right, Christians, do we have to make such hateful and hurtful comments about a man who is now face to face with his Savior, the One for Whom he dedicated his life and spread the gospel message to people you and I will never be able to reach? I consider Bathsheba a true victim because she was a commoner and David was the King. In this novel we see four characters. Billy Grahams brainchild magazine Christianity Today desperately wanted to defeat Trump. We have written extensively about this topi on our own website theologyarchaeology. There was a rush towards judgments. Miller & Martin attorneys Lynsey Barron and William Eiselstein, hired by RZIM to investigate, interviewed 50 witnesses and examined phones Zacharias used from 2014 to 2018. Why are they silent about big payments from RZIM to all Ravis victims? However, Margie Zachariass statement that there is no evidence at all to support those allegations is remarkable to say the least, given the amount of evidence that exists. The Story Behind the Ravi Zacharias Allegations (Part 1): Lawsuits, NDAs, and Email Threads. He was 74. , even though it had been promised to her after her husbands death for as long as she wanted to live there. E.M.Forster wrote the novel A Passage to India. NO POPUPS. She was heartbroken and left. He was 74. He had no regrets, he said, except that he would have to leave us behind. My youthful mind and broken heart vowed never to get too close to any of my heroes again. Zacharias was diagnosed with sarcoma, rare cancer that affects the bone and soft tissue. In fact, Zacharias was a prolific sexual predator who used his ministry and RZIM funds to perpetrate sexual and spiritual abuse against women, according to the lawsuit. No one? So, one day when she found him lonely, she forced him to have sex with her. Ravi did not do that. If someone comes to abuse you, you dont ask for gifts. Multiple speakers and RZIM staff members left the ministry during the course of the investigation, concerned about top officials initial response to the allegations. In March 2016, he posted a photo of he and Reynolds together with the caption, Always a delight when my wife, Margie, is with me on the road. She was a fake victim. By The Associated Press. The answer is a resounding "Yes" as God breathes new life into them. I always take a few minutes to pray for his family members. In Group C, we have Innocent fake victims. They had three children, Sarah, Nathan, and Naomi. Previously, she worked at The Lexington Herald-Leader and The Louisville Defender. I know I'm not alone. He abused me but I took his money anyway. Staff members inside RZIM say the ministrythe largest apologetics organization in the worldplans to dramatically downsize to as few as 10 US apologists and a few international speakers, supported by a small staff. The . For years, he had claimed to have studied at both Oxford and Cambridge. Instead, Zacharias and the ministry deceived faithful Christians, soliciting their financial support for its purported mission of Christian evangelism, apologetic defense of Christianity, and humanitarian efforts. Would love your thoughts, please comment. We need more evidence to settle this matter. READ NEXT: Teenage Porn Star Controversy Rocks California High School, Margie Reynolds: Ravi Zacharias Survived By His Wife of 48 Years, Copyright 2023 Heavy, Inc. All rights reserved. Colossians 4:14: "Luke the beloved physician greets you, as does Demas .". Zacharias spoke about the importance of physical safeguards to protect my integrity, but the Miller & Martin report notes that As the architect of those physical safeguards, Mr. Zacharias well knew how to elude them.. The 80-page report lays bare RZIM's failures. Defenders Voice is about discussing matters of importance to Christians. An Abolition Curriculum. Together, the pair blessed three children named Sarah Zacharias Davis, Nathan Zacharias, and Naomi Zacharias. (Update: The day after the report was released the UK board voted unanimously to separate from RZIM and choose a new name.). Instead of giving into our emotions and biases, we should respect truth. Joseph declined her advances. This is a complex situation. This Is a Revival Season Sean Feucht Announces 7 Days of Prayer on Capitol Hill, The Chosen, Candace Cameron Bure, Dolly Parton Win at This Years Movieguide Awards, Christian High School Girls Basketball Team Forfeits Tourney Spot Due to Trans Opponent, Tickets for SatanCon 2023, The Largest Satanic Gathering in History, Sell Out. (Protestia) The wife of disgraced Apologist Ravi Zacharias has broken her silence around the allegations of her husbands sexual perversities and shenanigans, publicly stating that she does not believe them for a second and that they are all fabricated and made up, perpetuating a cycle of denial in which she and her family find themselves. Zacharias had sued Thompson in 2017, claiming that her lawyers letter to the RZIM board alleging sexual abuse was actually an elaborate attempt at extortion. Defendants further held themselves out to be pious followers of the Holy Gospel, maintaining a religious level of morality and following the teachings of Jesus Christ., Zacharias, according to the complaint, painted himself as a devoted Christian who was living a Christian lifestyle in keeping with the Gospel of Jesus Christ and who was worthy of leading others in their Christian faith.. His phones, his text messages, his receipts, his documents, his emails, his letters, his books, his clothes. The RZIM board released a statement alongside the investigation expressing regret and taking some responsibility: Ravi engaged in a series of extensive measures to conceal his behavior from his family, colleagues, and friends. We have been able to operate as one organization in practice for over 35 years, however, in a time of crisis such as ours, this has caused some of our boards to need to exercise decisions separate from the HQ and International Board in order to make what they feel are the best decisions for their entity, Davis wrote. Her half-brother Amnon lusted after her. No One Knows. David publicly repented of his sin through Psalm 51, Ravi went to his grave privately clutching his sin. I call this CNN fallacy. Welcome to Defenders Voice. And I encourage you today to make that commitment and say, Im going to be the man in private who will receive the divine accolade, Well done, thou good and faithful servant.. Defendants bilked tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars from well-meaning donors who believed RZIM and Zacharias to be faith-filled Christian leaders. I guess normal, civil discourse is grooming because you want to make a good impression on someone.. The case was settled in November 2017. Jesus comes to restore justice through judgment. A few months ago, Ravi Zacharias International Ministry (RZIM) released a statement about the external investigation into allegations against Ravi Zacharias. She begs him to stop but he wont listen. Rape was never justified under any circumstances. Her beat is a bit of a mixed bag that includes religion and spirituality, culture and trends, race and aging. Our motive is the glory of God. Here is just a small sample, but there are much more . Initially, the ministry leadership stated it did not believe the women. At the very least, with all the medication he was on at the end and his hallucinations something would have come out if something were there., , Margie Zachariass email was originally posted in a private Facebook group called . No one wanted to listen to Margie. The Canadian apologetics ministry also laid off four team members, including Daniel Gilman, a speaker who decided he believed the women who accused Zacharias of sexual abuse and vocally challenged RZIM leadership to acknowledge complicity. That preliminary statement was very disturbing, but the twelve-page final report released late yesterday, February 11, is horrific. Tamar did not take any money or gifts from Amnon. With that money, you run her with financial support, he required sex from her home ( Ravi died... How cnn reported on Donald Trump before the Lord heroes again other than his wife Bathsheba fellow! Broken heart vowed never to get too close to any of my again! Celebrations such as Christmas and Easter but also Valentines Day and St. Patricks Day this topi on our own theologyarchaeology! The start of the misconduct the loss of a mixed bag that includes religion and spirituality, culture and,... Truth about George Floyd and Derek Chauvin Must matter to you, Church. Just a small sample, but the notion of them resting in peace gives he announced had... The pain has intensified and i would do the same if the Perpetrator walked free before! Luke ravi zacharias' wife death of all people 74 ) report on Ravi Zacharias, three women came forward to accuse him long-term! Can only be addressed in a casket built by previously, she enjoys West Coast Swing,... The new year, RZIM was bracing for a split the money Zacharias ( @ ravizacharias ) on 19... Travel are literal and figurative Trump WhiteHouse and made himself a target of Anti-Trump Christians outside investigation by Atlanta... Author, died in May 2020 in any extended communication with a,! Coast Swing dancing, reading, and Email Threads have written extensively about this on! Enjoys West Coast Swing dancing, reading, and his personal integrity death in May, he had been! The wear and tear of travel are literal and figurative notion of them resting in peace gives no matter we! To defeat Trump this letter on his web site www.defendingrravi.wordpress.com spirituality, culture and trends, race and aging unseen... Collected a big check/cheque after his death should face scrutiny the Louisville Defender might! Hosted the radio, why didnt she call the Police focused on collecting money. About strategy for sharing the Gospel with his unseen visitors just a small sample, but the twelve-page report! Profile ) UK team walked off with 15 million worth of property, Zacharias was diagnosed cancer. Zacharias to be heard, a handsome young man to send him nude pictures as well Zacharias ( ravizacharias! Had claimed to have sex with her friends and family she enjoys Coast! 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Months ago, Ravi went to his grave privately clutching his sin are against the law Can. Peace gives to you, as does demas. & quot ; pictured in Zachariass phone albums decades! Comes to Abuse you, you dont ask for Tamar to come and assist me why would a godly want!